On Getting Back to Journalism
A Q&A with Outside editorial fellow Kevin Johnson
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What feels like a million years ago (but also maybe yesterday?) Kevin Johnson and I sat next to each other in the crowded open office of a tech startup, writing and editing content about camping and the outdoors. We were an editorial team of two, working with a bunch of freelancers and a client services team that also contributed many of the articles we edited. It was an exciting, stressful, whirlwind of a time. And in looking back, it’s pretty cool to think about all we accomplished while working together—but even cooler to see how much Kevin has done since then.
I was thrilled to hear that he recently started working as a fellow for Outside Magazine—and also completed an internship at the Audubon Society during the height of the pandemic. So I caught up with Kevin to hear about these roles, what it was like to apply for fellowships and internships, and what he learned in the process of transitioning from tech startup life back to a more traditional journalism path.
Writer friends, meet Kevin!
Kevin Johnson on Fellowships, Interviews, and Journalism Detours
“Using journalism skills is a phenomenal way to go through a job interview.”
Britany: Tell me about your internship at the Audubon Society. What was that experience like?
Kevin: It was a three-month position entirely based on editorial work, split between their print and digital sides. So it was with Audubon magazine. National Audubon Society being a nonprofit, they have a communications side. And they hire for that, too. So at first I wasn't sure how this internship would go because it wasn't super clear whether it was with the magazine or with the nonprofit of it all. But I went after it anyway, kind of expecting one or the other—thinking, well, it would be really good either way to work for this place. Because the Audubon Society is at the confluence of all of my interests and a good foothold in the environmental community as a whole. And their journalism is obviously very, very good. And I think they've only gotten better.
So I went after the internship and the interview process was surprisingly smooth. It was with the editors directly, which is always a good sign.
I've been an intern a couple of times. But being an intern felt like the option that was going to get me the furthest throughout the pandemic. So it was the right step for me. I had print magazine experience when I was in college with the local magazine, and then I went to Nat Geo. And that was print and digital. And The Dyrt was obviously all digital, and it was a little bit of all these other things.
But to get back to Audubon felt like, okay, this is the world of journalism that I am familiar with—with a healthy mix of print and digital.
I think one of the most valuable takeaways from my time there was actually relearning how to write; it was education through and through. The editors there should get paid overtime because they're educators on top of everything else. They're phenomenal. And I think they instantly picked up on where I was, which was a former journalism graduate, who then went and did a bunch of other stuff.
So going into Audubon felt like how I was being educated in college—it was this new step towards learning how to write.
That's awesome. It’s a bummer that so many journalism-adjacent jobs kind of beat those fine-tuned writing skills out of you, because it's so much more about efficiency and traffic. I think you and I have both been frustrated by that in past jobs, just really wanting to focus on high-quality editorial.
Yeah, exactly. You have to find your entryway into journalism. And this internship with Audubon Society just fully encompassed everything I wanted to do coming out of journalism school. It took however long it did to get me there. But it was really, really good when I did.
Can you point to one big lesson from that return to journalism for you?
Don't be afraid to go through edits, and do your due diligence with the concept that you're working on in terms of the story. Not just the people in the story, not just whoever you've interviewed, and the subjects and and the content in general. But like, what is this story today? And why are you the expert in this very specific moment?
That was the biggest thing they taught me. One early story I worked on, there was this big die-off in the Southwest with a bunch of different birds. And I came into it being like, it's obviously a very newsy piece. So I'm going to write this piece as news.
And then in the editing process, I was just barraged with questions that made me think, wow, I'd never thought about it that way, and never realized that there's so much more context to what I am writing about.
The editors ingrained that in me: You're not just writing one thing, when it comes to even the shortest, newsiest piece. There’s this greater history and background to almost every subject you write. At first I thought, maybe that's just the way it is in the science journalism world. But in truth, I can see it applied to everything. It's not just in the stories I write. It's in the stories I read. There's a conversation going on, and it makes me think about the conversation outside of those very specific stories. It's so helpful to have a collaborative editorial team that helps you work on seeing that.
So between our time together at The Dyrt and now it seems like you've probably put out quite a few applications for jobs and fellowships. Is that right?
I've certainly thrown my name at a number of things. With the pandemic and job hunting, it’s all kind of a blur. On a bunch of those application, I was either ghosted entirely—there’s a lot of ghosting in this process. That's super common. But I probably applied to at least fifteen different jobs.
Was there ever a time over the last year or so while applying for these jobs when you felt like maybe journalism wasn't going to play out as you hoped? And what convinced you to stick with it?
There were points when I thought I’d have to break from traditional journalism, and maybe jump around to SEO work or something. But that's kind of how it always goes. You get exhausted and then you're like, well, I've done this incredible amount of work so far—so I'm just gonna step back for a minute. And if these applications don't work out, then it's time to pivot and look for those other things.
But in truth, I’ve never considered dropping journalism entirely. Mostly because—and this might sound crazy—but there's a huge community of freelancers out there on Twitter, and ones I find through your newsletter, and even when it feels hopeless, even during the worst part of the pandemic, I knew there were people out there with so much advice on jumping into this world with both feet. And I hadn’t done the freelancing thing. So it felt like that was the next step if I didn’t find a job.
But the Audubon thing ended up working out. And I'm very glad that it did because it helped me retrain my writer's brain.
Freelancing, that’s something I feel like you can always fall back on. And it'll be up and down. But you know, so many people are doing it. It can definitely work.
Going through so many interviews, was there any question that stuck with you or caught you off guard?
I think the one general thing I found helpful in interviews is to just make a connection on a very human level. As journalists, we have experience interviewing sources. We know how to make them feel comfortable. Using journalism skills is a phenomenal way to go through an interview. Think of it that way.
Also, edit tests are super common in journalism. With Audubon and Outside, I've done edit tests and then once the position was sealed, I asked my editors to tell me how I did and what I could improve on. Like, hey, tell me exactly how you think that edit test went. Asking about it and being curious about what gets put into an edit test is well worth it—even in the interview. I think asking questions about the edit test is a great idea. And post interview, it's a great opportunity for you to learn about what that publication cares about, and what those editors are looking for from your position.
So what kind of feedback stuck with you from asking about your edit test?
Things like, your grammar could be improved when it comes to writing very, very short items. Maybe in long pieces it reads better. You gotta be able to do that, write and edit something that’s super short and concise.
Another thing that stuck with me was just that generally, if you ask about the edit test, editors tend to perk up about that. They want you to ask.
So having survived the grind culture of a startup, and now having survived in different versions of it, and editorial, do you feel like you've gotten a handle on work/life balance? How do you avoid burnout?
It’s a tricky thing, being an intern and a fellow and all those things. In general, with internships—lots of people have their complaints about being an intern. And that's for all the reasons that can be addressed as grind culture, because you just get sucked into it. You're doing tons of grunt work.
That hasn’t been the case at Outside, but I've done it before. And I think I've learned, having participated in both startups and editorial, how to make myself a priority. I’ve worked with a lot of people who are aware of how stressful this culture can be. And you know, going through something like a brand new purchase from a new media owner, or a work situation that is so dire that you need to unionize—that teaches you things. It's been a team effort, where everyone kind of looks around at each other and says, well, we need to do something about this. We need to take care of each other.
It seems like in all of these instances, just looking to the people that you work with is a big part of staying sane, and maintaining a healthy work environment.
Yeah, and that’s how it was when we worked together. We all got to kind of be together in what we were doing. Hindsight tells me how enjoyable that was—mostly because I got to work with such cool people.
In the larger scheme of things, if the environment is unhealthy, then at the very least you’re looking out for each other at work—and at the very most you’re pushing for an effort to unionize.
So you’ve been at Outside a couple months now. What’s that fellowship been like so far?
It's been everything I've been building on and wanting to do for such a long time, from working on the print product to contributing to digital. I've been fact checking since I was a junior in college in 2017. And that was one of my first introductions to the journalism world in a very professional sense, with National Geographic. Fact-checking is a large proportion of the Outside magazine fellowship too. They have a really good structure in place for people to learn things. And fact checking is truly one of the best ways to learn when it comes to working with a new publication or brand.
What have you learned through your fellowship at Outside so far?
Outside has been, in the past five months or so, pretty representative of what many journalists are seeing from legacy media outlets in this and the past decade—merging and consolidation, new strategies for reader engagement and subscriptions, things like that. For as much as I’ve learned in the process of producing a print magazine on a nearly monthly basis, and juggling that with a steady stream of online content, I think watching editors and contributors handle the shift in media from the inside has been the learning experience that will stay with me.
A lot of writers in the outdoor space consider Outside the holy grail of outdoor publications they want to pitch and write for. Have you gotten much insight on how to pitch and break into that space outside of being a fellow?
The editors are pretty phenomenal at looking for someone's best idea. In almost every single meeting I've sat in on at this point, I've seen editors, rather than reject ideas, say ok, here's what we're going to send back. And here's how we're going to talk about the story with this freelancer.
I will say, more so than other places I've been, there are editors here who are incredibly willing to hear you out.
Any advice for other writers who are applying for internships and fellowships?
Learn the publication’s voice and intention behind publishing a piece—that can really set a good tone, if you approach an interview or edit test coming in at the publication’s level. Looking at the previous intern or fellow’s impression on the magazine is another huge one. That research is akin to pre-reporting if you’re writing a story—basically it’s extra work, but you’ll thank yourself for doing it.
That’s all for today, friends. A big thank you to Kevin for chatting about his journalism journey.
If you're a paid subscriber, I’ll be back in your inbox on Tuesday with the usual big list of writing opportunities, inspiration, education, funding, etc.
Stay inspired and hydrated,
Britany